3-1-14
I have been contemplating how I will be able to express my
love to my wife, when I do get married. As an INTJ, emotional expression is a
bit difficult, to say the least. Granted, it isn’t impossible, but when it is
easiest is when I am generally feeling things so strongly that they begin to
leak everywhere. At those times, I have a difficult time actually explaining
what I am feeling.
1. I want to write her love letters and then read them to
her. This may be the only way she will be able to see both the emotional
manifestation of my love while I am also using words to describe what I am
feeling. Otherwise, she would only see one or the other, because when my
emotions are manifesting that strongly, my thinking becomes muddled and
non-linear. And if I only wrote to her, she would not see the emotional
manifestation. I think she will need both from me.
2. I want to lead her spiritually. Now, I don’t expect to
marry a woman who is spiritually immature, that’s not what I am talking about.
Rather, I want to lead her deeper into the things of God than she has ever
dreamed possible, as He in turn has led me. Don’t get me wrong; there will be
things that she will help me to learn as well. This is just me taking Paul’s
charge to husbands in Ephesians 5 seriously. This will include things like
praying together and having devotions together daily.
3. I want to demonstrate my love for her in little things.
For instance, if she doesn’t like slipping into a bed with cold sheets, I would
warm her side of the bed for her. If she were too tired to do her portion of
the household chores, I would do them for her. Sometimes I would just do them
anyway, to bless her. J
I would give her gifts, both purchased and those that I made, small things
mostly, to remind her that I am (or will be) always thinking of her.
3-3-14
4. I want to stay healthy and fit for her. As an INTJ, it is
very easy for me to start thinking about something and remain immobile for
hours at a time. I need to get up and exercise more, as well as improving my
eating habits. I want to do this so that our time together can be maximized and
not cut short by preventable disease and health conditions. And yes, as an
INTJ, I do forget to eat sometimes. This has to do with a very poorly developed
Si. INTJs are often not very in touch with their own bodies.
5. I want to be present for her as much as possible. I will
need to care for myself, which as an INTJ will mean sufficient alone/quiet
time. However, I will also need to make sure that she has the time and care
that she will need from me. This will mean doing things with her when I would
prefer something else. This is a large part of where the relationship will
stretch me. But, as Paul states in Ephesians 5, husbands are to lay down their
lives for their wives as Christ laid down His life for the church. I will have
to discover when I actually need time alone or in silence and when it is just
something that I would prefer. I will need to steward my social time so that as
much of it as possible is available to her.
6. I want to take interest in her interests and enjoy the
things she enjoys. This may not be possible in every case, but as far as it is
possible, I want to do this for her.
7. I want to write songs for her. My voice isn’t the best,
but I will write and sing songs for her as I am able. They may be cheesy and
sung a bit off key, but they will be from my heart to hers. Hopefully they won’t
be too painful to her ears.
I will add more to this list when I think of new things.
I just wanted to say that I thought this was really sweet and encouraging. I didn't realise that many rational types would think about personality or relationships very much!!
ReplyDeleteI don't know about the motivations of others. Personally, I am interested in this because I am striving to be ready when the right woman appears on the scene.
DeleteAs an INTJ, I am better suited than many to remain single and alone. However, that does not mean that I want to remain single and alone. And since INTJs can be so hard to read, I started to wonder what I could do to help avoid misunderstandings. This led initially to the Guide. But this was by no means the end of my thinking. As of March 2014, I have ten posts on the blog, of which seven have been a result of my thinking about relationships.
In this post in particular, I have shared some of the practical things that I have considered that I can do to demonstrate love. Because I will never be the most emotionally expressive person. In general, if you can see it on my face, my emotions are already almost overwhelmingly strong. That's great for those times, but that will not be an every day thing. And it is unfair for me to expect my bride to get by with just that.
Apologies. This is getting longer than I intended.
Rob
Hi Rob,
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your thoughts! It is very useful. I have met a few INTJ men in real life, and I must admit I do find them hard to read at times! As an ENFP I have been drawn to them, yet I am also a bit hesitant about getting into a serious relationship. And it's often hard to tell if they are genuinely attracted to me.
I like lots of quality time together and physical affection, so I wondered if I would come across as "needy" or a bit smothering. Although I aim to depend on God first and foremost, I wonder if I would want to spend time with them more than they would want to spend time with me? (This could be partly an introvert/extrovert issue, though.)
I have also wondered if the five love languages are type related. Stereotypically SJs show love through acts of service, SPs like gifts, NFs like quality time and NTs like words of affirmation. However, I'm not sure if the NT would want as much affectionate touch as the NF - though I suppose this would probably be an individual issue, as each person is so different into this respect.
I have also pondered whether I would feel rejected or get overly sensitive when the NT is very direct. I have had NT friends and found they are generally more direct than I am, and don't struggle as much with receiving constructive criticism. However, I find I am quite sensitive to criticism and have to really try hard not to take it personally!
It would be interesting to hear your response to my concerns. There does seem to be much positive anecdotal evidence for the ENFP-INTJ pairing, but I have wondered whether the ENFP-INFJ partnership would be ideal.
Kind regards,
Lauren
Lauren,
DeleteSome of the indicators I give in the Guide are quite telling about how an INTJ feels. Of course, each of us is a bit different. However, if a given INTJ offers to do things for you or wants to do things with you, he probably likes you. If he says he likes you, he almost certainly likes you a lot. :)
Again, I can't speak for all INTJs. However, it is not people who wear me out. It is large groups of people that wear me out. In one on one situations, I can interact a lot more and often enjoy the time. If it is someone I like, I can spend nearly unlimited time with them.
Don't get me wrong. If I have to process, I would need time alone. But that really just means that I would need some time alone. And if we weren't interacting every moment we were together, then my need for time alone would decrease.
Where this would be an issue (for me at least) would be if I were dating a woman who wanted me to always be at parties with her. I could do this somewhat, and would gladly do it for her. However, I would not be able to go every time and my energy levels could get dangerously low. Except if I could find one or two people to go into a corner with and have a deep conversation. If I could always do that, then I would be much more able to go to parties and such.
Your idea about the five love languages is interesting. As an NT, one of my love languages is definitely words of affirmation. However, another is quality time. However, if I knew that I was dating someone who needed or wanted affectionate touch, I would make sure to give her such, within the boundaries that we set to maintain purity.
Even though I don't need affectionate touch, per se, I do look forward to being able to snuggle or hold hands or whatever. And since I am an INTJ and my emotions are harder to read, I want to do such to display as much as possible my affection and love for my bride.
The sensitivity thing is an issue. An INTJ who cares will make an effort to curb their directness, if he or she really cares. (Of course, part of this has to do with maturity as well.) However, since being direct is so natural for an INTJ, he or she may not realize that what is said was hurtful. Openness on your side would be important in this respect. Again, if he really cares for you, he will make an effort. If he won't make the effort, he probably isn't worth it in the first place.
An ENFP-INFJ paring would be easier in some respects. You would both share NF. For you it would be Ne-Fi and for him it would be Ni-Fe, so there would be some differences.
I have written in other places why I think an ENFP would be a good match for me, particularly in the area of balance. However, the actual individuals in question are actually far more important than whatever their personality types. Immature INTJs would probably not be a good match for anyone, while mature INTJs may be able to match well with pretty much anyone. The same with ENFPs, etc.
So, I have said that I want to marry an ENFP. But really, I am looking for a woman who is a good match, no matter what her personality type is. You don't need to confine yourself to a certain type. Rather, look at each man as a total package.
I hope this helps. And thanks for posting again.
Blessings,
Rob
Hi Rob,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your thoughtful and well-reasoned response! I appreciate it and found it quite useful in my current circumstances.
It is interesting what you said about being at parties and finding large groups of people exhausting. I also prefer small groups and individual conversations, and I have read that other ENFPs are similar. It seems that many NFs prefer meaningful conversation, which can be difficult to achieve in a large group. Still, ENFPs tend to have wider networks of friends and enjoy more social time than introverts. I live with two female housemates who are INFJ and INFP, and I can tell they enjoy much more time alone than I do.
The INTJ man in question requested to meet me one-on-one, as he thought we would have a lot in common. He never directly said that he liked me, although after we went out together he sent me a message confirming "we do have a lot in common, as I suspected". He is a committed believer and seems quite cautious about relationships.
Personally, I found his words a bit ambiguous and he has not made his intentions clear since then, so I don't want to read too much into it. Particularly as a Christian woman, I would like the man to take the lead and I don't want to initiate too much. It's always a delicate balance as I would like to indicate interest, yet I don't want to take the reigns.
Thanks for discussing your perspective on the love languages topic. I find it amazing that some people don't feel a need affectionate touch! It seems rather hard to comprehend. Yet each person is so unique, and God has wired us all differently. Even if people shared the same love languages, it is wise to remember that we still have to compromise and make an effort for the other person.
May God guide you in all your relationships, and continue to give you insight and wisdom for the future.
God bless,
Lauren
Laruen,
DeleteThe INTJ man that you have mentioned is probably trying to decide what to do. He may even be stuck in an Ni-Te loop. And it may be that he just isn't ready to seek something deeper right now. Depending on his past, he may be feeling fear right now as well.
It is normal for you to want him to take the lead. That is not to say that if you didn't push him a little right now that he wouldn't take the lead later. However, it isn't guaranteed and it is understandable that you wouldn't want to initiate too much from your end.
I'm not saying that this is the case for sure, but it is possible that he was just seeking to answer the question: 'Do we have a lot in common?' If that is true, then he wasn't seeking to establish anything deeper. I don't think that is likely. However, if anyone were to do something like that it would be an INTJ or an INTP. I'm sorry I can't shed more light on this situation for you.
As to the love languages topic, you are welcome. I did overstate just a little bit, but not a whole lot. I do need touch, but not nearly as much as most people do. A friendly hug in greeting and when parting is quite nice. You may find this funny, but I hold hands with my Mom. And I do long to do that with my bride. But I want to do that more for her than for me.
INTJs can be quite passionate, but that passion is not something that is necessarily easy to see. That is part of why I am looking for things that I can do that will help my bride to see my passion for her, when that day comes.
I take very seriously the charge that Paul gives to husbands in Ephesians 5. 'Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves His Bride, the Church ...' (My paraphrase). How can I, as an INTJ, share my emotions with her in the way that she needs? That is part of what drives me right now.
Blessings,
Rob
P.S. If you have any questions about ENFPs, I would be happy to help… obviously I can't speak for all people with the ENFP personality type, but hopefully I could give you some insight. I have posted about MBTI on my blog: http://www.enterthehaven.com/blog/2014/04/16/personality-types/
ReplyDeleteLauren,
DeleteThank you. I do have questions. We will see if I can figure out how to ask them.
I will definitely check out your post.
Blessings,
Rob
Hi Rob,
DeleteYou're welcome! Thanks for sharing your thoughts - I have posted a reply to your questions on my blog. I hope it is helpful!
Kind regards,
Lauren
Hi Rob,
ReplyDeleteI have another question for you. Do you think it is common – or perhaps even normal – for INTJs to speak in a critical way? I have noticed this in both ENTJ and INTJ personalities. I've also seen it in some INFJs to some extent.
I must admit, I find this tendency to evaluate everything through a critical, analytical lens can seem rather harsh and negative. It makes me feel wary and cautious, because I wonder if they view me through such a critical lens.
Would the *NTJ focus on my negative traits or flaws? Is this just the way they view everyone, including themselves? I have read that INTJs tend to be quite hard on themselves, and this makes a lot of sense to me.
Isabel Briggs Myers mentions this issue in the book ‘Gifts Differing’:
‘For example, the thinker’s natural process is inappropriate when used in personal relations with feeling types, because it includes a readiness to criticise. Criticism is of great value when thinkers apply it to their own conduct or conclusions, but it has a destructive effect upon feeling types, who need a harmonious climate… Uninhibited criticism makes life stressful for feeling types.’ (p.118)
She also mentions it again later in the book, in relation to marriage:
‘Many of the thinkers’ criticisms are not uttered with any expectation of producing change. They are just thrown out in moving from one thought to another. Even if thinkers are aware of their critical tendency and curb it discreetly in their working hours and social contacts, they (particularly TJs) will feel that at home they are entitled to blow off steam, forcibly, picturesquely, and with the TJ’s characteristic exaggeration for the sake of emphasis. Among the targets of their casual criticisms may be the feeling type’s friends, relatives, religion, politics, opinions on any subject, or merely something just told with an intent to amuse the thinker; and in this exaggerated form, the criticisms will not be true. The feeling partner will often be tempted to defend something or somebody against this undue severity. The temptation should be stoutly resisted.’ (p.129)
I have certainly had this experience, as I realised that when my INTJ/ENTJ friends have discussed something or someone in a critical way, I have defended the subject of criticism and urged them to consider the other person’s point of view. I usually argue for a more empathetic perspective, which I suspect would be rather frustrating for a TJ type!
Does this ring true in your own life? Do you have difficulties communication with feeling types as a result? I imagine it would be more challenging when TJ types try to communicate with FP types, which are typically the most sensitive.
Blessings,
Lauren
Lauren,
DeleteI will try to respond promptly and not process this too much first. For both ENTJs and INTJs, Te is the process that we display most readily to the world. And Te can be everything that you have described. It is analytical and therefore can feel cold and harsh. This can be especially true with less mature individuals, where Fi may be lest developed.
I believe a developed Fi helps with empathy, so the older ENTJ or INTJ may begin to soften a bit. However, I suppose this is not a given.
As I have gotten older, I have learned to phrase things in ways that are less hurtful. (But it is possible that I have hurt some people and not known it.) Sometimes it just takes a moment to pause and to try to see things from a different perspective. This doesn't necessarily mean that the analysis is wrong. Rather, it is the mode of delivery that is in need of review.
Part of this is not just because of the way INTJs (and possibly ENTJs) view the world, but what they desire to receive. INTJs tend to take criticism rather well. That isn't to say that we enjoy it. However, if we are wrong, we want it pointed out. We don't necessarily even want the blow to be softened. (There may be times when we do, but probably not most of the time.)
Personally speaking, if I can keep my emotions out of an exchange, then I don't have to worry about emotional turmoil on my own part. The emotions are there, but buried deep. These are things that I bring cautiously into the light, in part because I fear being hurt again. Yet sometimes emotions must be revealed, and this is where Ts of all sorts begin to have problems. Perhaps especially TJs, but I can't say for sure.
So, in criticism, I don't always want emotional content coming with it. This is particularly true if the emotional content is negative. Perhaps to an extent, INTJs and possibly ENTJs are then just presenting what they themselves would prefer to receive.
Yet, this is exactly the opposite of what Fs need. Fs need emotional content and it would be far better if the emotional content were positive. This leads to an interesting question: How can an INTJ add love and perhaps mirth to an otherwise emotionless evaluation, and do so in a way that is genuine? The emotions are there, no matter how machine-like the INTJ or INTP may appear. I assume this is also true with our E counterparts. :)
Now, about INTJs and ENTJs focus. I would venture to say that it would not just be on your flaws. Perhaps the problem is that INTJs and probably ENTJs in love want to help the ones they love to improve. Now, it does depend on the situation, but a lot of critique from INTJs may fall into this category. But the critique would be a small picture of how the INTJ actually sees his loved one.
INTJs (and maybe ENTJs) have a world model in their heads. A very important part of this model is how we see the people around us. So, I have a kind of sub-model in my head of every person who is close to me. This model includes: past experiences together, conversations, appearance, moods, likes, dislikes, possessions, my emotional responses to them, etc. Because, the way I see the world and the people around me isn't with Te; it is with Ni. But Te is my primary language for expressing things to others.
This is something that the NTJ needs to learn to express, I suppose. The desire to help someone improve can definitely come across as negative, when this is kind of the opposite of what the NTJ means. If an INTJ doesn't care about you, he won't bother to critique you; rather, he would just let you continue as you are.
(Continued Below)
This has been a bit long and perhaps rambling, but let me summarize my thoughts. For INTJs (and maybe ENTJs), critique is actually kind of a complement, even though Fs have a hard time seeing it that way. As INTJs (and ENTJs) mature, they may learn ways to help that are less painful to Fs. For an INTJ, this may mean learning how to reveal to a loved one how he really sees her.
DeleteSomething that an F could do is this: Try asking your INTJ to write you a letter describing how he or she sees you. Then, the INTJ could read the letter to the F, or the F could take the letter to read alone. You may be able to ask ENTJs to just express this. But, they may need time to collect their thoughts as well.
Remember, taking time to do something properly is an INTJ way of expressing value. Also, INTJs need calm to think clearly. This is why I suggest asking for a letter. However, an INTJ may surprise you and be able to just tell you. If that happens, he or she has been thinking about you a LOT. Don't take it as an insult if they cannot express their thoughts immediately, though. If there is a lot of emotional content in the model, as is likely with a loved one, it may be hard to express. The writing and the reading out loud process would give both clarity of thought and emotional content from the INTJ.
Lauren, I meant to summarize and started developing ideas again. I apologize. :) I hope this helps.
Blessings,
Rob
Hi Rob,
ReplyDeleteWow, thank you for such a detailed and well thought-out answer! It is very much appreciated. The part I found most intriguing was how you describe having a model in your head of the world - including the people - around you.
In terms of practical application, it has given me a great deal of understanding in my relationships with family members. I've had some negative reactions to my ENTJ brother, but in hindsight I realise that some of the communication problems are due to the personality differences (plus he also has very different values, as he is not a Christian).
It also gives me a deeper understanding of the INTJ man who I have been getting to know (and wondering if he is interested in me romantically!). I noticed he could be somewhat critical in his evaluation of his church, and he also made some critical comments about his family members. It's almost like he is weighing up the pros and cons of people or groups, thinking aloud, in an effort to make sense of things around him.
I have found it hard to tell whether it could be a character issue (as I have encountered people who are excessively critical and negative nearly all the time), or simply a typical personality trait. I suppose we all have personality tendencies which, left unchecked, could become a real problem.
I know that as an ENFP, at times I struggle with the "grass is greener" syndrome and this could easily lead to discontentment. At times I also find it difficult to remain committed to something (e.g. a job, a church group, or a club) as I love to change and try new things. I don’t like it when people judge me for my weaknesses and assume the worst, so I want to view others in an understanding way.
Also, I think the letter writing idea is quite clever. I actually find personally that I like to write letters or emails about things which are emotionally intense or challenging, because it gives me time to collect my thoughts. (If the topic is emotionally charged, sometimes it sounds like I’m “all over the place” as I blurt out my thoughts in a stream of consciousness style.) I am getting better at expressing my love and admiration openly to close friends and family, although sometimes I do feel a certain awkwardness about it.
It requires a great deal of vulnerability and sometimes I find it hard to express my emotions directly to someone’s face, unless I know them very well and really trust them. I’m not sure if this is a typical ENFP thing, but I do know that with our Fi we can be quite good at hiding our true feelings and often people don’t realise when I’m actually struggling, upset or unhappy. I have been truly amazed to hear how people at work genuinely think I’m happy all the time, when actually my moods are quite up and down.
In answer to your question, “How can an INTJ add love and perhaps mirth to an otherwise emotionless evaluation, and do so in a way that is genuine?”
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the letter-writing idea, I would suggest that ENFPs (and probably most F types) need any criticism to be sandwiched with positive affirmation, affection and reassurance. I want to know that I am still loved and that it doesn’t mean I am being rejected for who I am as a person. Because even though I know in my mind that the person still cares about me, in the moment it can feel very painful and make it difficult to remain dispassionate. It could also lead me to becoming defensive and putting up walls, to prevent any further emotional hurt from occurring.
I think it’s also wise to consider the other person’s background – even a T personality may struggle with criticism if they have received verbal abuse or grown up in a dysfunctional family. And I suppose all people are more sensitive about some issues than others, so we can accidentally “push their buttons” without realising.
Anyway, I hope it is useful to get a perspective from “the other side”, so to speak! I must confess I’m still feeling uncertain about whether I could cope with a relationship with an INTJ, as I am highly sensitive. I wouldn’t want my future spouse to always feel like they are “walking on eggshells” around me, so I’m sure it would require a great deal of patience from both people to work through any miscommunication.
Blessings,
Lauren
Hi Rob. I'm thankful because of your clear answers. I hope you could help me to analyze my situation.
ReplyDeleteI'm INFJ and I met an INTJ. I and him have many things in common as values, ideas, interests and situations. I just talk to him online because we're in different countries. I read a lot about INTJ and most people said INTJ is harsh or no feeling. But to me, I can feel he isn't the same. I feel he's very opened and his feeling is clearly.(sometime I think he "sweet"). He's still a INTJ, he usually convert my feeling as a logic stuff to understand. He talks about himself much such as his flaws and what he think about future, love, philosophy and ask me some questions that I think he want to analyze me. We just keep in touch about 2 times per week through email. So I want to know if he likes me as friend or more? Does INTJ like/fall in love with someone online?
S.Y,
DeleteAn INTJ can fall in love with someone online. INTJs are often not in touch with their emotions when they are younger, but get become more so as they get older.
It is hard to say if he likes you as more than a friend, though. Time will tell.
Perhaps it is time for you to start talking about meeting in person. Propose the idea generically, at first, and see how he responds. You can set a date after he has gotten used to the idea.
Meet in a way that is safe for both of you, when the time comes. After all, you only know each other online right now.
Blessings,
Rob